In this episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of technology in businesses with our guest, Steven Gedge, a seasoned programme Director. Steven's journey is a testament to how technology can revolutionize business processes and shape careers.
But it's not just about technology; the conversation also delves into the power of purpose and the importance of mentoring. Steven draws from personal experiences to emphasize the value of recruiting seasoned individuals with valuable skill sets and the benefits of experienced leadership.
Steven also shares his wisdom on leadership roles, giving trust to those you hire, emphasizing the "why" in your projects, and empowering your teams. Challenges in implementing global programs and the importance of backing oneself in team decision-making are discussed.
In summary, this episode explores how perceptions shape careers and how technology can transform businesses. It underscores the significance of understanding the 'why' behind transformation, the power of mentorship, and the potential of technology in revolutionizing businesses.
It's a must-listen for anyone eager to grasp the transformative potential of technology in business and the art of effective technical communication.
Check out more of the Focus Cloud Group Podcasts and chats on your favourite media players!
Youtube, Spotify, Apple, Google!
In this episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of technology in businesses with our guest, Steven Gedge, a seasoned programme Director. Steven's journey is a testament to how technology can revolutionize business processes and shape careers.
But it's not just about technology; the conversation also delves into the power of purpose and the importance of mentoring. Steven draws from personal experiences to emphasize the value of recruiting seasoned individuals with valuable skill sets and the benefits of experienced leadership.
Steven also shares his wisdom on leadership roles, giving trust to those you hire, emphasizing the "why" in your projects, and empowering your teams. Challenges in implementing global programs and the importance of backing oneself in team decision-making are discussed.
In summary, this episode explores how perceptions shape careers and how technology can transform businesses. It underscores the significance of understanding the 'why' behind transformation, the power of mentorship, and the potential of technology in revolutionizing businesses.
It's a must-listen for anyone eager to grasp the transformative potential of technology in business and the art of effective technical communication.
Check out more of the Focus Cloud Group Podcasts and chats on your favourite media players!
Youtube, Spotify, Apple, Google!
This is Stephen Gedge, rather than the Stephen Gedge that everyone thinks you are, which is a very enclosed Individual really. Well, no one said that to me, but I did, and then I got to know you. So if I did, what's everyone else?
Steven Gedge:Yes, yes, I wonder why that perception Exists, because I don't view myself as being a an enclosed person and, like you, we've known each other a few years now. Those people that I've worked with over time have had the same perception early on, and I don't know where that comes from.
Lloyd Gordon:I don't know why that exists, because I don't believe that I portray that it's interesting, right, that, like people's perceptions, and I'm and I'm gonna, in these morning Of you called it what we called it my major mindset moments, beach mindset moments right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say something about this. And the mindset moments at the beach, as no doubt you've seen on LinkedIn and we have a social channels they're about being raw, right, and they're not planned, they're not scripted, they're just whatever is on my mind, which is alarming sometimes, right, and people's perception of Anyone can be whatever their perception is. I give you an example the way that I look, right, I can't help the way that I look.
Steven Gedge:What would you change?
Lloyd Gordon:But If I walk into a gym that no one knows me, no one speaks to me, and when I get to know someone, the first thing they say to me is oh, I thought you was like. You know, some, yeah, some me aired who you know. You look very angry. I'm like that's just my natural face. Like my natural face is, I don't know when I'm, when I'm concentrating on something, maybe I look angry and then you would look at me like that girl yeah, where's my wallet, where's my phone? You know, and that's because of your, that's because of your perception to the outside world. And I think some, I think I think my perception of you was not like that right, but my perception of you was you know, you're very high up senior individual and Put it this way, first time I called you I thought to myself my game has got to be absolutely right.
Steven Gedge:Wow I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have thought that, no, no, you're not that. You gotta be yourself, haven't you? It's interesting because you might have noticed that my hair's got a little gray. I know it has. Yeah, it might be the lighting in here but it has.
Steven Gedge:And it went up, it went early and and I Kind of liked it, and then the end. I've joked now that is that's worth 50 grand, right, because it makes you look like this worldly wise, sophisticated Urbane chap that's been around and seen it and even when I was, you know, in my early 40s, it was still pretty great and I kind of embraced that. Um. So, you're right, it's perception, right, you see, see, you see you Good-looking guy, built as you saw me, as you know this, this older guy that's that's been around and he's clearly in command of his, his remit. Yeah, they're just perceptions, right? Do you remember the?
Lloyd Gordon:first time we ever met. Yeah, so we met in May fair somewhere, or something like that. I came away from that meeting thinking what a lovely bloke and totally not what I thought but we would.
Lloyd Gordon:You are a lovely bloke you are a lovely bloke and like a just a normal, normal individual, and but you know what I came back and I actually said this to a number of people who you know as well right, what I came away from noticing them the most about you was how you dressed when you met me. You was look, you look very clean. One thing, the one thing that I came away from, was thinking oh, I'm Steven Gadget's nails. Honestly, yeah, like your nails were. Your nails were all manicured right, I'm sure you get manicures and stuff like that, and that was what I noticed very, very interesting, isn't it?
Steven Gedge:So it's clean and I could now no, you dressed very nice.
Lloyd Gordon:You had, you had very nice cufflinks on, and, and I came away thinking, I've, how do I get Steven Gadget's nails? Honestly, that's what I thought.
Steven Gedge:Anyway, big impact. This is actually not my towering intellect, it was you want my nails, but I'll take it.
Lloyd Gordon:So so thanks for coming in anyway, stephen. I really appreciate it and you know, I obviously know you is from being in the work, the ecosystem for a number of years. We've known each other for a number of years and We've obviously worked together on a few projects. So I wanted to I wanted to find out a bit more about what makes you tick right. So At what point during your career Did you think I'm gonna go in run projects? Tell me a bit about your background.
Steven Gedge:Interesting actually. So my background was Software development, so my degrees in mathematics and I joined a consultancy early on. I've been in independent contract for 25 plus years, so I've always thought of myself as Running my own business not on the grand scale of what you guys are doing, but I ran it as a business and therefore I felt that I had to offer a business solution to my clients. So in the early days that was programming and software development etc. But what I was always quite good at was articulating Solutions in business terms. I was quite techie but I was able to relay that into business leaders Mindset and terminology and therefore problem-solving for them. So and I enjoyed that and that kind of gave me a bit of a unique selling point. You know there were hundreds of computer programmers, as we used to be called, and then and then there were analysts and I kind of Traverse those two fields and because the, the business areas that I was working in tended to be HR and people-led, that Articulation of solutions in terms of business process and what it meant for people etc. That kind of drove me into into that that pathway.
Steven Gedge:Then I was fortunate I was in in a very big global Investment Bank which is no longer around, and they were deploying people soft as an HR technology on a global scale and I saw that program being led and managed very well, actually alongside what I was doing, and Occasionally there was be a handoff between information, what I would provide and what they needed, and I saw that as being actually this is a really good area for me to start to get into, and so I kind of drifted into that.
Steven Gedge:We'll talk about this a little bit later. But the advances in web 3, ai, machine learning and all this I see that as being a Cyclical event. So, for example, when I was starting my career, talking about technology in terms that a Business leader whether he be an HR person or a sales person or a finance person talking to them in their language, was a real skill. And we're seeing now with take chat, gtp, for example, if you can educate a, a business manager, in how to make use of chat and Claude and all of these AI type Scenarios, you're going to get great advantage. So I see it as being the conduit between the tech and the business and that's that's really where I I started to grow into into my career.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, yeah, so you was originally.
Lloyd Gordon:Program yeah and yeah, I Be careful how I say this. Typically, when you get programmers and technical consultants, they, they don't tend to have the personality to go with it. They're very, very techie, absolutely superb. With anything technical on any product. They can work it out. But actually Translating what they're trying to do to someone who's not techie is a real struggle. And the ones, the ones in in the ecosystem that we, we operate in, the ones that have got that ability to be able to translate that to anyone other ones that get paid the most, as you know. But it's interesting that you, you've obviously got great personality. I would never would have said a technical background.
Steven Gedge:No, actually I hear that a little bit and I guess it's just the way your mind works, isn't it? I, I got the tech. I guess that's because my math background I got it, I understood it. I like the logic and the, the beauty of it. But also I Describe myself as with a fake extrovert. My natural nature, I think, is to be a little more reserved, but I force myself To engage with people and I get a lot of benefit, a lot of positive vibe back from that and and through that I'm able to bridge both camps. Should we say I'm an introvert?
Lloyd Gordon:Definitely not so. So you've done this. You've done this first people soft implementation and. You, you operate as a, as a project manager on that, on that well, actually I was still quite technical in that space.
Steven Gedge:I was building out. Can you believe this? So how far technologies come these days? I was building the compensation system for a global investment bank From scratch to feed information into people soft when we round that for four or five years and this was in let's call it casino banking days, beginning of the 21st century Bonus numbers, which are even today, are still eye-watering and management of that cycle. All of that we built from scratch Because there wasn't the technologies in the ERPs to be able to do it to the standard and the level and the Sophistication that an investment bank in those days needed. Now, of course, it's all part of advanced comp in in all of the ERP systems that we play with, but those days it was bespoke from from scratch.
Lloyd Gordon:Wow so you can, you still do all that stuff. I.
Steven Gedge:I Languages, move on right. So Python and all the rest of it these days I'm not familiar with, but the concepts around Moving numbers, around moving data around, etc. Yeah, of course, what I think is really interesting nowadays is the shift, if you like, from Number crunching, which it was good at, it's now more text based, and the power of that I think we we still don't quite understand. So you know, you can feed data into chat, gtp, lord or what have you and it then mined billions and billions and billions of documents in the blink of an eye and turns that into text information and Context sensitive information. That's a. That's a difference I think that we're seeing now in the advances in technology and Even the likes of the big ERPs that that we get involved with and we've gone both with together. They are seeing that and they're bringing that into their corporate, corporate platform. Really exciting. And I don't think we yet fully understand and of course we won't yet the implications of that and how to play out.
Lloyd Gordon:I was in there. I was in an event for a vendor the other day and they were talking about some of the technical technological advances that they're but they're implementing in their HR and payroll solution.
Lloyd Gordon:I was like wow, yeah, okay really, and you think to yourself when is this gonna go in 10 years though? Cuz, if you can do that now, you know it's like it's like gonna be able to go on your phone in 20 years time. It's gonna be a little box that sits in your pocket and you're gonna be able to order your shopping, your clothes, your Groceries, whatever you want, on this little black box that sits in your pocket. You go there's no way. And Now you see all these, all these advances in the ERP systems. It's like wow.
Steven Gedge:I just I think the rate of change is Accelerating as well. So we've we've seen that in the last 20 years Internet and all of the rest of it pretty rapid, right, but I think the curve is actually steeper now. If you think of what's happened with AI in the last 18 months to two years just unbelievable. I know when web 3 is gonna accelerate that too, yeah.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, I haven't really taken too much notice of AI if I'm honest and tool recently and I'm like, wow, you can actually do that with AI as an in more as an individual. But I think one of our next brands will be Focusing on artificial intelligence and RPA, which is which is obviously next biggest thing. So so we are looking at things like that, so okay. So, going back to your career, when did you think to yourself I want to be a PM, because you obviously started as a PM first and then got bigger programs and and ended up where you are today.
Steven Gedge:Yeah, I. I Talked a good game earlier, earlier, and I persuaded people that I was capable of Managing teams, etc. So I grew through evolution. I didn't I didn't go on a course and come out the other side of PM. It was an evolution and I think For me that was helpful, because I learned through my own mistakes, and we all know that's a very powerful way of learning. Gets embedded deeply into your psyche, doesn't it? And Credit to the organizations that trusted me to do that. Yeah, mistakes along the way, but they just got bigger and bigger and bigger and, I think, to my credit, I built teams that were strong, capable, supportive, ambitious, and I mean, to this day, there are a number of people that I like to take with me on projects that I Trust and are highly capable and their careers are developed to. And you know this right through through your business. You build out a team, you lean on that team. They grow, you grow fantastic, yeah, and and that's that's to me, the best way of evolving.
Lloyd Gordon:Mm-hmm, the story about the young man sitting in the room. Actually, he, no, no, I would like this this. What this part is is gonna be saying, because you're talking about, you know, taking people with you in the journey and stuff like that. So the story behind Ryan right, is that Ryan came into our first office about Seven and a half years ago. So the company was was, it was just started and we had probably Four contractors every seven years at the time.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, so he came in seven and a half years and he came in and his background was working stacking shelves at waiters and he came in for a. He came in for a recruitment job, right. So I just started this business and I was very like I've got to make this business work and say the same way I am now, but in a different way then, like I don't want to go bankrupt in that sort of way, whereas it's different now. But so you got this guy, a really, really nice guy, comes into the office and says he wants a job as a recruiter. And I don't know whether I laughed in his face or anything. I don't think I did. Actually you'd have to ask it.
Steven Gedge:You're not. You're not a rude man, no.
Lloyd Gordon:I'm not rude man, I know, and I'm not rude even when I want to be rude, if I'm honest. But what I said to him was you get eaten alive on the phones just too much of a nice guy, right? But how about doing some marketing? Do you want to do some marketing like social media and stuff like this? Well, I'll give it a go, it's okay, cool. And now, seven, seven years later, he's our marketing manager and he's really good, you know. So, yeah, I understand the value of taking people with you and helping people to grow and and trust in those people.
Steven Gedge:I also see that now as Part of my responsibility, right. So I've had a career, have a career Of some years. I've got a lot of experience to share with people. This idea of mentoring, guiding, offering advice to People that I've worked with and also to organizations, that, that that lights me up. Actually I'm quite into that and I see it as being a Kind of a legacy, if you like. What is? I think it's the Chinese people they say like in your, your 20s, you're learning, in the 30s, you're earning, in your 40s, you're establishing and in your 50s, you're teaching. So it's a kind of a circular paper. I wouldn't know you. No, I'll remind you a few.
Lloyd Gordon:Remind me, a couple years, remind me. I said that. So all right. So I know you, as you know as a, as a program director, very, very capable and you do. You do what we call big stuff right. So, when you go into an organization who is looking for any ERP or cloud transformation program, what are the Transformation initiatives that you, as an individual, would need to get across to those, to those stakeholders You're engaging with?
Steven Gedge:yeah, it's easy to get caught up in the let's call it the glamour and the excitement of a break program, and if you're an organization that Gives you a bit of a focus to work on and we're gonna take be taking some action, I think it's vital that you understand why you're doing the program. So it was a Carl Jung said if you, if you know the why, you can answer anyhow. And if you understand the driver behind what it is you're trying to do, you should embed that in your business case. So you're driving customer satisfaction, you're driving cost down, you're improving market share. What is the, the North Star that you're trying to solve for?
Steven Gedge:Um, it's easy to, I think, to get To a level down to say, oh, we're gonna change our HR system or we're gonna change our finance system or our Procurement system and the way we do business, we're gonna change our operating model. We will, okay, maybe you are, but why are you going to do that? What is it going to give you the? So what? You've got to keep going back to that, even at the early stage of project initiation. Right, you're putting together your business case. You're putting it, you're costing it, you're putting together all the variables that will make it potentially happen. And then you're Selling that to the organization.
Steven Gedge:You've got to be able to tell the story of why are we doing this, what's it for? Because you're gonna be spending millions, maybe tens, maybe even hundreds of millions of dollars. You've got to be able to tell that story and I think that's it's sometimes overlooked or sometimes glossed over with the. We've got to be seen to do it, to be doing something. But until you're sure organizationally that you have a business Imperative to soul for Don't start, you're not ready.
Steven Gedge:And then, once that's going, once you've satisfied that and you have a North Star, you've got to tell everybody what that is, and that will be Macro and it will also be micro as well, and everywhere in between you've got to be able to have a story that's consistent, stacks up, that everyone can Understand why you're doing it and what it means locally, but what it means globally to the organization as well. They're really important that you can do that Because if you think suddenly from a multinational perspective, you know there's going to be local initiatives, local needs, cultural differences, as Well as what it is the whole organization is trying to achieve. If you can tell the story at each level and people can see how it relates to the bigger picture. You get more buy-in. You get you get more Involvement and more Interested what you're trying to achieve.
Lloyd Gordon:Do you think that's the reason why? Let me rephrase the question. The biggest thing that I hear when working with organizations, global organizations, with, let's say, multiple countries all around the world, is You'll, you'll talk to the location and it might be the program director, it might be the CHRO or the CFO, whatever, and they're very bought into it because they was part of the ER, the, the RFP process.
Steven Gedge:Yeah, so they signed it off, right yeah but?
Lloyd Gordon:But generally, if they've, if they're being very open, which nine times out of ten they are, is they've got these locations across the world, and a typical Comment would be that oh Belgium or oh Germany are not bought into doing this project. Do you think that's because they didn't get the initiatives right from the top before of why they're actually doing it? How odd you think that it's. It's just you know cultures or they like the way they're doing things. What do you think the reason?
Steven Gedge:I think this idea that We've always done it this way I think that's yesterday's story right. I don't come across many people that are of the mindset We've always done it this way. They're for not going to change. I don't see that. I don't see that. I think people understand that change is necessary. What, what you don't always get is the buy into the, the detail of what's happening.
Steven Gedge:You know organizations, countries, to their different Legislative profiles, they have different cultural behaviors, they have different market conditions and I mean I've worked with Many of my organizations have been truly global. But there's a world of difference if you're running the project out of the UK or you're running out of New York. There's a world of difference in Singapore or in Eastern Europe. That Doesn't matter or doesn't get to the ears of the people that are running the program, but it's vitally important locally because you know locally you're supporting your customers, your client base, and you want to do a good job. I think generally people want to do a good job and and progress their careers and serve their customers, but that's a million miles away from some decision that's been made in New York or that some decisions been made in London or wherever centrally. So you. You need to understand and have a A network and a pulse on what is happening locally, which is why your local management can be a real Benefit, a real boom to the programmers, a whole. You need to be able to feel the pulse of what's happening locally because you know, with a small tweak or or actually we're sorry, yeah, we know you do it that way and we know it's important.
Steven Gedge:But the bigger picture is we've got to go this way. So you know you, so long as you can understand the ask locally and the need locally, you can make decisions about it. You either support it or you don't. You've got to hear it. One of the things I say to people when they join the team and I've done this a few times actually, you know, sometimes your team gets 30, 40, 50 people, 100 people big, and you get a new joiner and they they're a little bit cautious to where they sit in this big team. What I say to them is we don't necessarily have to agree, but you do have a voice. And if people are listened to even if, yeah, I've heard you it's a decent argument, but we're going to go this way. They can understand that. But if they're not listened to, then that's what brings resistance, and I think it's important to hear people give them a voice.
Lloyd Gordon:Do you think that's the reason why you don't get buy-in from certain countries? Because it's a typical comment? It really is, and it's not so much that. It's the way we've always done it. So we're going to continue, Because some regions have their own MD who's responsible for their own P&O, but they're part of this big large group. A big large group have decided to change the finance system or the payroll system or the HR system or whatever, and the MD doesn't want to do it. But the MD is the main person in that region. So if the MD doesn't want to do it, then the people underneath the MD won't do it. No, no, no, no, You're right.
Lloyd Gordon:So do you think it's because that's not been translated properly to the MD. Well, it's also.
Steven Gedge:Do you have a good case. So the why? Come back to what I said earlier. If you have the why, you can answer the how. The why we're doing this needs to be articulated clearly and whether that's aligned to the MD's position in your case or it's contradictory to it. The why has to be clearly articulated and understood and then I'm sorry country, that's not aligned. The bigger picture is we're going this way for the greater organisational good or greater organisational necessity. There will invariably be winners and losers in such a scenario, but you've got to be able to articulate we're doing it, you may not like it, or we're doing it and you do like it, but we're still doing it.
Lloyd Gordon:So have you ever been on a project where it was really tough? That was really tough. You had senior members of regions where they just didn't want to talk to you because you're the guy sitting, say, in London, and they're in this region. And how did you deal with it?
Steven Gedge:Yeah, it's interesting, right, because locally they're running their own business. Right, they've got local customers, local markets, local business practices and maybe they're part of a great mothership that seems remote, etc. If your solution is right for 90% of the organisation but not right for one particular division, you've got to take a decision. Well, do we localise? Do we have a workaround for this country that we're talking about? That's problematic, or do we actually say, buddy, suck it up. You're part of the bigger organisation and we're going in this direction? There comes a point where there's a decision that has to be made. So come back to my argument that give the guy a voice. He's being heard.
Steven Gedge:You don't necessarily have to account for every nuance along the way. You can't do that, and especially a global programme. You're trying to fit something that's globally consistent. Yes, of course you have to have harmonisation, localisation, if you like, for specific countries, markets, etc. You do that to the degree that you're comfortable with and that works. But essentially, eventually there's a bigger decision to be made. You're spending potentially hundreds of millions of dollars and you can't account for one particular market. But it's a problem, right, and that's human nature, right? We all want to be serving our customers to the best of our ability. And what's a bigger picture doesn't necessarily fit. It's problematic.
Lloyd Gordon:You always try to keep everyone happy, right? No, it's not.
Steven Gedge:It's not running a country right.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, I mean, I take my hat off to the people that run their countries, you know, even the people that you know. There's lots of bad things said about them in the news, all that type of stuff Through Covid Boris, wasn't it? I'm not politics, as you know, right? So it was Boris and I thought to myself that guy has got such a hard job, so give him a little bit of space. That's what I was thinking. I wasn't thinking oh yeah, you know you got out for a party and stuff. I wonder he did you know wasn't anyone else?
Lloyd Gordon:No, no, you know I don't know.
Steven Gedge:It's a really question of scale too. So you see, some of the Scandinavian countries, for example, smaller, more connoisseur, more historically harmonized populations is when that starts to grow and you get to scale, that's where the problems start to creep in. And if you have a giant organization, you can't keep everybody happy. Right, You're a family man. Right, You're only as happy as your unhappiest child, aren't you? You kind of like that with a big program.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, yeah, I can. There's two ways I can relate that to. I can relate that to, obviously, having a company where I want, you know, 100 people. I want them all to be happy and we've just seen recently with something that we've done. I can't keep everyone happy. You just have to go big picture. The bigger picture is this and, quite frankly, you know the company is going to do this. So if you don't like it, there's a door.
Steven Gedge:But you've given them a voice.
Lloyd Gordon:Yes.
Steven Gedge:That's important. Like I said, we don't have to agree. Yeah, but you have a voice and I will hear it, or the program will hear it or the organization will hear it. Hopefully we can agree.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, and then from a family perspective, I'm quite lucky because my wife takes care of the children like that to a high percentage, I'd say emotionally. But you're absolutely right. You know, if you've got an unhappy child, it makes you unhappy. In fact, I remember when my daughter do you remember I told you about this my daughter went to a new school and she was having issues. And did that make me unhappy? No, because I protected myself mentally from it, very similar to where my father died. I had to protect myself mentally from not getting down about the fact that my dad died. But eventually it comes and bites you in the bum down the line, doesn't it? So you think you're protecting yourself then, but actually 12 months later you're going to explode, which is what happened with my daughter. So I put up with the issues that she was having for 12 months and then exploded at the end in the school.
Lloyd Gordon:Oh, you hate me. No, yeah, I think you can get that. You can get that many aspects of life, right, so with someone. Another thing I want to ask you as well Someone who runs these multiple programs and I have asked you this before right, you run all these multiple programs. They're worth millions of dollars each one, and you, your emails. Your emails must be going absolutely potty. How do you look after yourself and your mindset when it's really coming under it for you?
Steven Gedge:Yeah, I've been in that situation a few times actually. Well, like I said earlier, I tend to surround myself by good people. That's really helpful. Eventually there's a decision to be made and it's sometimes it's mine. I'm quite good at switching off. I've always been that way and I don't know why that is, but I've I've been able to compartmentalize that's work and that's work's issues, and then I go home in the evening and it's there, but it's not. It's not an it's not a problem for me. I don't know why that is.
Steven Gedge:It's helpful to be able to have people that you can lean on and trust. And I think and you've done that with your team right and the guys that I know, and it's evident from this, this floor here of people with their heads down doing this stuff and doing it in a Responsible way that's hugely, hugely beneficial. You can't do it all on your own. The guy I worked with that the Swiss Bank when people soft was there. He was a bit younger than me, actually, but he was. He was dead smart in the way in which he hired people, empowered them, leaned on them, stood up for them, but stood up to them as well, and he was very successful and I always think back to how he trusted the people that he hired, hide the best he could get. He engendered, I guess, through that behavior, a Team of people that were there to support him and make him look good, and we all succeeded together. That that was. That's a good lesson for me. Actually, I use that a lot, yeah.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I couldn't. I can relate that to my own personal situation now With a lot of the social media stuff from I'm beginning to do. I don't do that, you know. Yes, I take the videos in the morning and whistle sort of stuff, but most of the stuff that's put together that makes me look really good Because I'm not doing that, some of this skill a bit.
Steven Gedge:It's not your skill, right. Your skill is in the orchestration in the direction of the organization, clearly. But you surrounded yourself by smart people that can put those bits and pieces together, those nuggets together, and make it into a book or a story or a video or a podcast, right?
Lloyd Gordon:My thing is. My thing is I Surround myself for people who are smart and I am in their areas. So and then and then I just lean on those people and if you can get truck like you've already said if you can get trust with those Individuals, those certain individuals, then I know that marketing is taken care of, I know that you know HR is taken care of from all the other areas I've got worry about any of those areas, but you, just, you just kind of architect it from the top thing, which I guess is is is a lot to do with what you do, right. So what would you say? Your, your biggest successes are today and also your biggest points of Learning. I never say failure, as you probably meant. So your, your improvement points.
Steven Gedge:Yeah, success happening. I've run half a dozen large-scale global programs, some of which I've initiated from the outset. So I'm the architect of Business case, technology selection, partner selection, team build, deploy, off into it becoming BA. You, you, beautiful. We all have those projects right where you design it all from the outset and you take the whole team with you Fantastic.
Steven Gedge:But I've also been parachuted into programs that are struggling. That's really good for your ego, right? If you can turn around a program that's spent some money, spun its wheels, isn't really going anywhere you can turn around that and make it a success. I Think there's more, there's more Value to me as a person Through being able to do that, because you know you're starting from a shaky platform. Now, if you, if you go from a greenfield site and to end, you are the Owner of all the decisions that that got you to it, so you're relying on that for yourself.
Steven Gedge:But stepping into a, a program that's underway, is spent a lot of money. You've also lost a lot of the confidence and the buy-in and the support of your Stakeholders, your steer-co and your executives, for example. You know well who are you Guy coming in to take this over. I think you're gonna do better than the last people that did it. Why would I trust you? So you're, you're on the back foot from the from the outset. I like to be able to do that. So I see I've done that a couple of times. I see that as being Probably my my most successful gigs so far. Interesting, yeah, it tells me a lot about your mindset.
Lloyd Gordon:Okay, and then biggest, biggest learns, biggest learns, biggest Improvement points, if you like.
Steven Gedge:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you've got to back yourself and there's been a couple of times where I really up against it. I think there's been significant separation of two organizations, with TSAs involved and lots of money involved, etc. And it all hinged on my program. There were a couple of points in in that program that I thought I'm not sure about this, I didn't, I didn't have the answer, I didn't didn't know the solution and I doubted myself a couple of times and I shouldn't have done, because I was with a good team. We had all of the decision-making capability and Control within our team. So it's down to us to work through it, break it down, solve one little problem at a time. You, your, your horizon becomes very short. You know the next couple of hours we're doing this, then we're doing this, then we're doing that, and I wobbled a bit there, which I shouldn't have. So good learning there. Right back yourself if you, if you've got the experience and the team around you. Back yourself, yeah, shows you vulnerable, right.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, I guess so. No, you don't. But. But actually, when you think someone's unbreakable, it can also come across like you don't care it. You know what I mean. So Seeing someone actually cares and they are questioning themselves because they're in a very high pressure Situation and you can handle the pressure right. I've never spoken to you and you haven't never said we're, we're like all friends now right? So You've never said to me oh, that's too much, or anything like that. It's, it's. It's interesting that you say that there's been some scenarios where you've you've doubted yourself. Yeah, there's been loads of scenarios when I've dealt myself loads, you know, and you do, you do. I've never I don't know if you've ever done this, but I've never questioned whether I'm good enough To do what we're currently doing, but I have fought to myself. You could have done that better.
Steven Gedge:Yeah for sure. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I don't think that I'm I'm not capable of doing it. It's either a time constraint or a money constraint, or decisions outside of mind control, and then, variably, in that scenario, there are things you can do well, you can things you could do it extremely well, the things you do less well. So, yeah, that's an area, but you know you've got to take a punt and give it a go right, yeah, and you learn from that. But but I'm also More aware these days of Not everybody wants to smash it out the park all of the time and some people will say is too much for me.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, and that's okay, right, because there's a role for them up to that point.
Steven Gedge:Beyond that they don't want to go or they recognize that they're not capable of going. But Then you can leave them where they are or or maybe they move on. The organization I had that on a recent program guy actually was highly capable, but I pushed him and pushed him, pushed him because he was capable, and got to a point he said I can't do anymore, I'm overwhelmed. Okay, we decided to to park company, but you know he could have carried on doing what he's doing and you kind of reached where he was at you.
Lloyd Gordon:At least he knows. So next time that comes around, he'll think back to that conversation that he had with you and go no, I can do this. And he'll push himself that bit further. I'm not known for pushing people in the organisation at all, yeah, but you do it, you do it. You do it because it's the right thing to do.
Steven Gedge:You do it to yourself as well, right, I've known you a few years and you've gone bang, bang, bang and there's always the next thing. I mean we spoke earlier. Right, you're gonna get into AI and and predictives and all of that kind of stuff potentially. How many focus companies are there now?
Lloyd Gordon:Half a dozen, nine, yeah, but that's kind of like when you launch a brand, when you launch a new brand. That's the easy part, if I'm honest it is. It is for us. We've launched so many brands and we've got, we've got. We've got so many great customers. All that we need to do is to launch a new brand and bolt that onto the existing client base and then make the customer aware that we've got this new brand that can help you in, you know, whatever it's gonna be. So we're gonna do Oracle, oracle applications, and we're gonna do AI and RPA, and that's easy.
Lloyd Gordon:The hard part, where you push yourself is is is the vulnerability side. If you ask me, this is just my personal opinion. Right, it's when you really don't want to do it and you have to do it, and you push yourself to do it, and then you finally come out the other end and but. But when you're in the midst of it, as I'm sure you've experienced with many of your projects you're right, you're right in the trenches and you're going. It's almost like. It's almost like you're in a war Best thing I've got right now. To be honest, you're in a war and there's all the soldiers are firing at you from both sides. You know and you just go, you know, but you you end up getting to the end of where you're going and you come out the other end, you go. Thank God I didn't turn back, because if I'd turn back then when it got really hard, then we wouldn't be back, we won't be be where we are now. So very similar to programs I would have thought you know.
Steven Gedge:I always come back to this right if you can articulate why you're doing it, how you do it, you can always solve it. You're not smart people around you. With the right investment, you can't do everything you get.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Steven Gedge:Okay.
Lloyd Gordon:On emerging trends you will see in the realm of transformation, workday transformation and other technologies in the coming years.
Steven Gedge:Yeah, so I think blockchain is going to be particularly significant. So, but people think of blockchain as cryptocurrency etc. But it's actually a vehicle of secure contract ownership. It drives ownership. So web3 web1 read, web2, read right, web3, read right and own that ownership piece in a secure and uncorruptible manner. I think is going to be highly important. So, if you think about that in terms of a concert ticket sales, beyonce is doing a concert. Everyone wants to buy the tickets. There's a black market, grey market, after sales market for those tickets. With something like blockchain, you can and then they're probably doing this already actually you can securely, safely identify ownership and that so your ownership of your concert ticket, for example, and it's then yours to trade and do with as you will. I think that's going to be particularly important. As AI develops, as predictive analytics develop, etc. I think that secure ownership of an asset, digital asset is going to be really significant.
Steven Gedge:The reason we capture all of this data. So, whether it's an HR program, a finance program, procurement, and regardless of the technology or a call, success factors or any other word, we capture masses and masses and masses of information. When you create a new, higher record in any of these ERPs, the amount of data that you capture is really vast and you enrich that over time. So people, skills and aptitudes and their goals etc. All added in. We capture all this information. Why do we do that? So we can make decisions on it right. We use that data to make informed decisions. So I think predictive analytics based on historical data is going to be. It is now, but it's going to become more and more and more essential. It's going to be an essential skill for HR practitioners. It's going to be essential skill for finance folk. They kind of have this already in terms of numbers, but we spoke earlier about JAPT being text-based and it can analyze, summarize and present information from thousands and thousands of document sources.
Steven Gedge:You can now turn this into voice as well. My son's been prattling around with with these technologies. He created an interview scenario and you can you can vary the level of job that this would apply to, but it was voice-based and the answers that the candidate gave were interrogated, interpreted and represented back and it led the questions in real time. Slight delay, half a second, so you could half tell that you're talking to a robot. Then you can switch that into any language. He did it in Spanish. He did it in German from a base set of information that that he had captured in in this interview that he built.
Steven Gedge:So that kind of experience is going to become more and more popular, more prevalent as well, and also, I think, individual context. So we talk about Gen Y, gen Z, and they behave like X, they behave like Y or they do these things. That's, that's too blunt, what technology will be able to do, in my view, and you see this now with the ERPs that we talk about, they get very precise and tailored to more to you as an individual, based on information they know about you, based on some predictions, etc. But it becomes finer and finer. So, rather than say Jen said individuals like to behave in this manner, you can say that Lloyd likes to behave in this manner, ryan likes to behave in that manner, steven likes this kind of thing, and it becomes much more tailored.
Steven Gedge:I see that becoming it's. It's already in the in the realms of Amazon or Deliveroo or LinkedIn. It is pointed to you because it knows what you like, and you see that we've all had this experience. Right, you're talking to your partner about buying fishing rods and all of a sudden, bing, bing, bing, I've got some fishing rods talking to my partner about buying fishing rods whatever you talk to your partner, I definitely don't talk about talking to your partner about cat food.
Steven Gedge:Right, and that's a cat food. And I see that conceptual model becoming embedded more in our HR technologies and a finite stick to procurement legal, the whole show interesting, interesting.
Lloyd Gordon:I remember about 15 between, say, between 10 and 15 years ago I went to see a big four customer very, very heavily on the tech side, and they told me that they was working on a project for a retail company or the retail industry that would. That would scan your your buying habits and would let you know when you're near a certain chain of that store and automatically ping your mobile phone with the best offers, based on your spending habits, from other stores, of what was available at that store. Now I have not seen that, I've not opened my eyes. I've not opened my eyes to that.
Steven Gedge:It's there a couple of my clients. Divisions are in their business and that's highly, highly valuable. If you think of the margin on, you know you can identify people of this social profile in this area. We've been able to do that for years, right? People that like to watch good morning Britain and that are aged 35 to 40 and the living clappin. You can do that. They've been able to do that for years, but now we you can. If you at overlay to that, they're buying habits and actually even more precisely, the last time they bought, let's say it's milk, the last time they bought milk and so they know that they're likely gonna be out of milk, you can target to that individual. They can do that already and that's it's kind of creepy but it's also highly effective in terms of efficient use of your time, efficient targeting to you do know, joe, funny, funny, this comes up right because I was.
Lloyd Gordon:I was only talking to a friend of mine. I used to go, actually used to play football with him many, many years ago. It was on the train on the way in and he just started the business. So we just we just started talking business and stuff like that, and we were talking about the value that you get from having a business or being relatively successful, and I said that I have some nice watches. Now, thank God, my well, this one. You'll see where we're on going with this. Right, I have some nice watches and the one that I like the most is my Apple watch. You know, got all these very expensive, a few really nice, expensive watches. But I wear the Apple watch. You know why? Because it makes me a better person, because it tracks everything about my body. It will tell me things that I don't know about, what's going on around me, and therefore I wear my Apple watch and that's a couple hundred quid it's personalized, isn't it?
Lloyd Gordon:it's personalized, yeah, and I I've kind of like grown into this person. I just want my I don't want my life to be easy, so that's not what I'm saying, but I want things to make my life easier, do you mean? And that that's what technology makes my life easier? Because I don't want to go online and have a look at you know what shorts and tracksuits and to buy this where we're on that work tracksuits and shorts and things like that. I don't want to go online and watch and look at that. I want something to tell me that and I just want to click the button because it's already picked up the size, because it knows my, my spending habits from before. I just want to pick. I just want to click a button and go yeah, I left that and that's it, and I want it to come to my house the following day so I can wear it, and I think that's where we're going right.
Steven Gedge:If it's not really there makes in carry off. We could identify when a sales leader was likely to start to look for another job. There was a pattern of data that we were able to analyze. But that's trend analysis and it was backward looking. The value, I think where we're at now is predictive. So, yes, part of that knowledge base that the predictive analytics will look at is your previous behaviors, but it also brings in environmental factors like the economy, cost of living, inflation, health alerts, etc. It can overlay macro dynamics into the decision-making, as well as your personal history. So that makes it very, very potent, because it has access to unlimited amounts of data yeah, so this?
Lloyd Gordon:so this thing that's on my my thing here. It's called Nora ring and it tracks all of my sleep and the deep sleep and the REMs and everything like that. And I was with them done a podcast a couple of weeks ago with with one of our senior members of the leadership team at one of the vendors, and I brought up the fact that the only thing that I can't see right now that any of the ERP providers are doing is they're doing everything else they're they're making their employees get paid quicker. So there's there's a system out there now which is serendipity and dayforce, where you can just click a button and then, yeah, it's really good, within within a few seconds, the money that you've already earned in the month is already in your account. That's brilliant, right?
Lloyd Gordon:Not many of the the vendors are doing that. But what? What? I think they are missing and and if any of them do this, this idea is copy-written and I will look for my royalties none of them are tracking their employees health, their employees health. Do you know what I mean? You've got all these things that help you in the Apple watch, on the Samsung and whatever else. How about feeding that into the product and you'd have to sign to say you're okay with that. Right, I get that. But if that happened to me, I would want my ERP system telling me Lloyd, you really should not be doing this today. And it doesn't, but you've got all the tools around you that will tell you. So if I look at my app now, it will say to me take it easy today, take it easy.
Steven Gedge:You know, that's what I said to me, this morning.
Lloyd Gordon:Take it easy. What about an ERP doing that, though, and informing your manager? Because if I, if I say, for example, you're my manager, you care about me, right, I do as well, I know you do, I know you do, I care about you too but say, for example, like my employees, I really care about these people, right, and as long as they show me that they will walk through fire for me, I will walk through fire for them twice. So if they're not fit for work, I don't want them to come in in that way, just under me. I don't even want you working at home. You know, I want you to go and have a massage, which I'll pay for, right, because I care about you. Don't get any ideas. Ryan's writing down massage. Yeah, I'm deadly serious. This is really. This is really important, and the, the, the tools that we have that look after your mind set and your body, and everything like that none of them are connected to the ERP systems. Why?
Steven Gedge:you're turning into ethical questions here, though, aren't you? So many organizations I'll go into? They have posters up on the wall where your family you're not my family, right, you're somewhere I go to work and I'll come up and I'll do a good job.
Lloyd Gordon:Not everybody's keen on that if you're not, you don't have to agree, quite, quite.
Steven Gedge:So that's where the ethical question comes in, isn't it? Whether you're comfortable with that or you're not. Yeah, see, I would be. Yeah, if I was working for an organization with that right, okay.
Lloyd Gordon:So therefore, then you would opt out? Yeah, but I would opt in because my manager tells me that he, he or she cares about my mental health and you know whatever else. So therefore we have this system that does everything else for me. It should tell my manager that actually I've come in today and I really should not be in today tells you, to tell them they're highly committed to come in when they are feeling under the weather.
Steven Gedge:To yes, but then you'd have.
Lloyd Gordon:You'd have a good other graph, like you'd have a graph within the ERP system that tells my manager this is red because I'm okay coming in when I'm amber, yeah, right, yeah, but when I come in when I'm red, I need to do something about that, otherwise it will continue and it will just it will blow up, and I would love to have that for my employees, do you know me? And that's that's focus on health, focus on health apps.
Lloyd Gordon:Yeah, we could, we could have that together and sell it all over the world anyway. So last question before we, before we close off, because this has been absolutely amazing and I hope everyone that views this as enjoyed it as much as I have. You're obviously a very successful individual and you've been doing this for 25 years, right? So from a from a financial point of view, I'm gonna take a guess that you probably don't need to do this no, I don't right, and I haven't for some time right so there's there's something else that's motivating you to do it.
Lloyd Gordon:That's not the driver yeah, that's absolutely not the driver. So what is the driver? So?
Steven Gedge:I don't ever see myself retiring, right, I might do less. I might do a gig that's five days a week, or six days a week for three months, or I might do a gig that's two days a week for a year. That's how I see my future, but I'm not ready for that yet. Right, I've still got firing my belly to to smash a couple more big ones out of the park as well. I really want to do that and and I will.
Steven Gedge:People need to have purpose, and whether that purpose is a hobby, so people retire and they go sailing or they do the garden or they walk their dogs or they do yoga or whatever. It's a purpose and people need to have that. My purpose is still getting involved in conversations like this, helping organizations to get more efficient, and what we spoke about earlier is, I think I've got a little bit of a responsibility to share my experience. Mentors and people. There's a couple of my friends that you know. We, we kind of have a tacit mentoring aspect to our, to our friendship, and I think that's my responsibility to share the experiences I've had, not to say that I'm going to be right, but it's a perspective that they can't have because they haven't done it. They haven't been through that, that mill that I have in in the number of times that I have. So a few more years of hitting it hard. But then I won't start.
Lloyd Gordon:I'd probably just do a little bit less yeah, one of my, one of my customers actually gave me a really good idea. He said to me the other day this there's a, there's a in the age range in the workforce. There's a, let's say, a senior workforce that has an amazing set of abilities and typically organizations don't want to hire that that senior set of individuals, because they don't see them as being in the organization for a long time or whatever reason. They've. They've they've decided so. He said to me, why don't you set up a recruitment company that just focuses on those individuals and helps companies to almost backfill those attributes that they are missing in their workforce? Because they can with, let's say, the 60 yards I don't know, you're not, you're not in that realm yet but but they have a skill set that, let's say, the 40s and the 30s and the 20s are lacking and it's just sitting there, but no one just does yeah, yeah, yeah, the big bank that I started with I mentioned earlier on.
Steven Gedge:They had a concept of a role managing director, senior advisor, so that role was four or five days a month, very well paid. But these are senior, senior individuals. I mean, one was former prime minister. They hired for network understanding of oil and gas industry, which is his specialty dead letter before it became PM highly successful and very valuable to the organization as well. And you can't you come with a very valuable, potent black book of contacts to and network. That's, that's, that's gold dust, I think, to some organizations we've just gone through the same situation with our chairman all right, yeah, I remember actually yeah, yeah, heavy.
Lloyd Gordon:Our previous chairman of the type now. So the guy that you met before wallet well is suki. Bless him. He's saw him for shooting the other day, actually.
Lloyd Gordon:That's what the chairman should be doing well, he's the ex-chairman, he's retired now, right, so he? I took him shooting. Actually I was gonna say he took me shooting well out a few weeks before. But we've got new chairman now and our chairman now is the ex CEO of Alexander man and we've been through the last few weeks. We've been through some rocky times, not from a financial perspective, but from a from an organizational perspective, and having him, you know anything. He's in his mid 60s, doesn't look it and he's and his energy is, is is right up there as well, and having him there, I really don't know what we would have done through that without having him there, and it just shows you that absolutely priceless, absolutely priceless. So, yes, long make continue, sir.
Steven Gedge:Yeah, thank you and it's great to us I mean, we work together a few years now. Great to see focus in its various incarnations going from strength to strength in yeah, that's down to you and your team so long may continue it's placement just going off in the back there, so everyone's probably on the tables.
Lloyd Gordon:We obviously can't see that at the moment, but another sale.
Lloyd Gordon:Another placement now the guys, the guys doing really well. And you know, I'm, as you know, I'm building. I'm building to be able to to move aside now. So I'm in that later stage because of a promise that I made my kids, my wife, right, and I'm not gonna break that promise no matter what. So, yeah, at a moment we're just designing how this thing is gonna look when I'm not around. That sounds very morbid, doesn't it? And I'm not around, because I will be around, hopefully, but but not in a position. I mean, so test it, hopefully, a chance to look with that, hopefully, the new chairman brilliant, you know to grow my beard a little bit more, get the graze out, you know, but yeah, so look, steven, I really appreciate coming in. Hope everyone's enjoyed the podcast today. If you do do like this, make sure you put a like on it and subscribe to the Focus Cloud Group channel, and we've got plenty more coming for you.